Are Edgar’s comments on hitting analytics good or bad for Mariners?

Sep 11, 2024, 8:38 AM

Seattle Sports

In the weeks since Edgar Martinez rejoined the Seattle Mariners as their hitting coach, the team’s struggling offense has seen a noticeable uptick in production.

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Batting average? Entering Tuesday, Seattle was hitting .242 (18th in MLB) since Martinez’s first game as hitting coach Aug. 23 compared to .216 (30th) beforehand.

On-base percentage? The Mariners have been among the best in baseball under Martinez, ranking third at .347 as opposed to 26th at .301.

The dreaded strikeout rate? Seattle is around league average with at 24.2% (19th) while being guided by the Hall of Famer after ranking last in the league previously at 27.7%.

Even the one thing the M’s were doing well before Martinez arrived – working walks – has improved from a 9.1% rate (fourth) to an MLB-best 11.6%.

Shortstop J.P. Crawford recently credited the way Martinez has tried to simplify the team’s approach for the improvements.

“Man, he’s been huge. He’s been really good,” Crawford said. “He’s been helping everyone here and he’s been helping me out these last couple of days. And just the advice he gives is so simple and it really works way better than anything else.”

It is a relatively small sample size of just 16 games, which has included seven against the poor pitching staffs of the Angels and Athletics, but any sort of offensive life is a step in the right direction for the Mariners.

But, if Martinez ends up coming back after this season, which is uncertain at this point, will his approach to hitting work long-term in today’s game of baseball?

In a recent article by Adam Jude of The Seattle Times, the beloved former M’s designated hitter shared his thoughts on the approach of hitters in today’s era of baseball. Specifically, Martinez expressed a level of discontent with the focus on generating exit velocity and the in-depth focus on hitting mechanics.

Instead, Martinez is more concerned with the raw numbers like batting average, on-base percentage, runs scored and RBIs.

Mike Salk had a chance to read what Martinez said and was worried a potential shift away from the analytical approach, which has been accepted throughout baseball as the new way to succeed – much to chagrin of an older generation of baseball players and fans. So, he asked ESPN MLB insider Jeff Passan for his thoughts during Passan’s weekly appearance on Seattle Sports’ Brock and Salk.

“Let’s start by saying this, Edgar Martinez knows more about hitting than just about anyone,” Passan said. “He is a Hall of Famer. He was an incredible hitter and had the plate discipline that I don’t think was appreciated at the time, but now it’s almost like he’s got this Juan Soto-type eye, if I’m going to compare him to anyone in modern baseball.

“That being said, if you are going to be a coach for a major league team in 2024, 2025 and beyond, and you are not willing to accept, teach, acknowledge some of these principles,” Passan continued, “you are setting yourself up for failure.”

‘That’s the language they speak’

Passan’s biggest concern with a shift away from the analytical approach is the potential disconnect between players and coaches that could be a result. More and more players in today’s game grew up being taught with analytics as a guideline, and that number will only increase as today and tomorrow’s prospects reach the major leagues.

“That’s what they grew up with. That’s what they know. That’s language they speak,” Passan said. “And if you’re a coach, the number one goal you have is being able to speak the language of the players who you’re trying to teach. I worry that if you’re talking in generalities rather than the specifics that they are not just used to but are seeking out on a daily basis, that suddenly – even with your Hall of Fame credentials – you’re not going to register as being helpful to them, because you are not going to be hearing what they are trying to say, and thus the communication breakdown starts.”

Could Seattle Mariners balance Edgar with another voice?

Salk and co-host Brock Huard had a discussion about Martinez’s comments before Passan joined the show. They came to the conclusion that a balance of the analytics-driven and old-school hitting philosophies could be the happy medium for the Mariners.

After seeing the recent results and hearing the praise from players it’s hard to argue that the approach Martinez has taken hasn’t been somewhat helpful at the least.

“I think you can absolutely have a coach like Edgar on your staff that doesn’t care about these numbers, that cares about feel, that’s a Hall of Famer that commands the respect of these guys in ways that maybe a very numbers-driven guy that never really did it before is going to look at it differently,” Huard later told Passan. “And I think you kind of need to have all types of those different coaches.”

The problem Passan sees with that is that too many voices seemed to be a factor the Mariners’ hitting struggles before took over as hitting coach.

“Your suggestion is that Edgar having this other quiver of arrows, so to speak, where he’s focusing on feel and on all of these very subjective things as opposed to the objective measures that players are used to, you would seem to be saying that there needs to be somebody else who can provide (the analytics aspect), whether it’s an assistant hitting coach or someone like that,” Passan said. “I think a big issue with the Mariners so far this year has been the lack of a commanding voice. First it was Brant Brown and then he got fired, and then it was maybe Jarret DeHart and he got fired, and there were a bunch of roving coaches coming in at all times. Honestly, players kind of didn’t know who to listen to or who to go to.”

He thinks Seattle needs one stable voice to lead the offensive game plan, and that person needs to be able to teach with analytics.

“If that stable voice who you’re wanting to bring everyone in is just straight up shutting out part of the process that at least half – and I would venture to say more than half – of the hitters on this team and in Major League Baseball rely upon, then are you limiting the ability of those players to succeed?” he said.

The advantage pitchers have

Salk’s feelings were similar to Passan’s about shifting away from an analytics-driven offensive approach, but he feels perhaps a dose of Martinez’s approach is just what the Mariners needed in the final weeks of this season.

“I’m pretty concerned about any disparagement of incredibly helpful information that is very challenging to win without,” Salk said. “… I do think it’s possible, as much as I don’t like that kind of talk, that it’s exactly what this team needs for the last month-plus of the season – to just go out, tune it all out and just go hit.”

Salk then asked Passan, “Does a player actually need to focus on exit velo in order to get great exit velo?”

“When it comes to exit velocity, I do think focusing on it helps,” Passan responded.

The longtime baseball insider pointed the inherit advantage pitchers can gain from analytics as a reason why. With current technology, pitchers can add new, effective pitches to their repertoires in just a short period of time. Examples from the Mariners are the splitters Logan Gilbert and Bryce Miller added over the past couple of offseasons.

“When pitchers have the ability to go out and learn a new weapon within a matter of weeks or months, what do hitters do? Hitters can train to swing their bats faster,” Passan said. “It’s an uneven playing field. It’s an imbalanced game, and hitters are at such a disadvantage right now.”

Ultimately, Passan believes that there does need to be a balance approach to teaching hitting, which includes using the analytical data.

“I think my problem with what Edgar said is the idea that there is a right way and a wrong way. I don’t think that there is,” Passan said. “Analytics are not going to work for everyone. Simplifying is not going to work for everyone. Your job as a hitting coach is to find out what is best going to work for every individual player and make sure that he has the resources to find the best version of himself.”

Listen to the full conversation with ESPN MLB insider Jeff Passan at this link or in the audio player near the top of this story. Tune in to Brock and Salk weekdays from 6-10 a.m. or find the podcast on the Seattle Sports app.